| Author |
Message |
    
Larry Masden (L_masden)
member
Username: L_masden
Post Number: 753
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 8:08 pm: |       |
Bob,
Yikes...
I'm frustrated when you imply that people who accept evolution will by some necessity of their own thinking be war mongers.
I'd hope you could do better to accurately represent the thinking of other groups...
P.S. Evolutionary theory does involve competition, fighting, and group fighting (war), but also involves cooperation...
Perhaps it's the cooperation factor that turns out to produce some of the coolest steps: acquiring genomes, endosymbiant hypothesis, formation of hemoglobin precursors from parts provided by two, initially separate organisms, etc. This is the stuff of the "Wonders of Nature" to me but I don't post it in your "Wonders of Nature" thread as it's slant could come across as contentious in a thread you aim to be non-contentious.
In the theory of evolution it's plausible that at some point at which reasoning about the future and the effects of cooperation and competition become possible, then a new system dynamic, based on "golden rule logic", can begin.
(Message edited by l_masden on July 24, 2006) |
Bob Sands (Bob_2)
member
Username: Bob_2
Post Number: 4527
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 9:09 pm: | |
So, you are suggesting a renaming of Evolutionary Theory as the "Survival of the Cooperators"??????? Is that sort of like mainstreaming of the weak by the strong????
(Message edited by Bob_2 on July 24, 2006)
Skepticism alone shows no progress,simply to reject the irrational,it must be followed with something rational,that does produce progress-Shermer
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Larry Masden (L_masden)
member
Username: L_masden
Post Number: 754
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:04 pm: | |
Bob,
My first and formost concern is that you imply that people who accept evolution will by some necessity of their own thinking be war mongers.
You might try examining some of the many sources that talk about evolution and ethics... Here's one starting point:
http://www.evolutionaryethics.com/
You're generally well informed and influential... In my view that ups the moral calling for you to accurately represent views of others ... None of us can be aware of everything, but hopefully with communication we can quickly find out about views, thoughts, and work of others.
When it comes to cooperation... I just thought maybe you could do with a little input that this is a big area in formal/mathematical evolutionary theory... The following is a starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation
You might also consider various kinds of symbiosis such as the "Endosymbiant Hypothesis"... Or book "Acquiring Genomes"...
The details of specific areas are always important, but the general concept of cooperation (a label admittedly) is a big part of current theory. |
Larry Masden (L_masden)
member
Username: L_masden
Post Number: 755
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 8:26 am: | |
Dang.. I admit to getting "Bob Sands" and "Don Sands" confused on this one...
I musta been a little punchy when I read the thread...
Bob... I thought I was dialoging with Don on this one, but the comments above apply just as well to you.
Don... I'll try not to attribute Bob's comments to you (in my mind)....
Comments from both of you welcome always. |
John Alfke (John8verse32)
member
Username: John8verse32
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 12:44 pm: | |
Comments from both of you welcome always.
mega dittos
but it is nice to know whether the ball in play is softball, or hardball. It affects the method of pitching and whether you can steal home base. ggg
with passionate ambivalence I shyly shout that the world needs more raging moderates like me dogmatically favoring ambiguous equivocation. |
Don Sands (Don)
member
Username: Don
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 8:12 pm: | |
but it is nice to know whether the ball in play is softball, or hardball
In the movie, The Rookie, Jim Morris teaches science in Texas and coaches a ball team on the side. They make a deal with him. If they win he has to try out for the major leagues. They knew his pitches were fast. It was those major league pitches that those kids learned to bat against. When they played other teams the pitches were easy in comparison. So here, hardball might seem rough, even unfair at times, but its actually beneficial, at least for me; good prep for the classroom.
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John Alfke (John8verse32)
member
Username: John8verse32
Post Number: 2218
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 10:27 am: | |
also helps to know when a pitch is coming in "underhand".
Not that there's anything wrong with thaaaat.....
just nice when everybody understands (and follows) the agreed upon rules of the game.
this post after my Red Sox just crushed the "A's",
and there was some "discussion" over the rules!!!
(Message edited by john8verse32 on July 26, 2006)
with passionate ambivalence I shyly shout that the world needs more raging moderates like me dogmatically favoring ambiguous equivocation. |
Neal Walls (Nwalls)
member
Username: Nwalls
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - 7:05 pm: | |
Interesting article in Time
quote:What Makes us Different?
Not very much, when you look at our DNA. But those few tiny changes made all the difference in the world
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1541283-1,00.html
Excercise your right to think for yourself |
Don Sands (Don)
member
Username: Don
Post Number: 1664
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 4, 2006 - 4:11 am: | |
The Time article is fascinating. I wonder what theories or explanations have been considered regarding self-consciousness or self-awareness. How did the ability to reflect, consider past and future, etc. evolve? What are the theories? |
Neal Walls (Nwalls)
member
Username: Nwalls
Post Number: 1694
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 9:20 pm: | |
Chimpanzees 'hunt using spears'
quote:Chimpanzees in Senegal have been observed making and using wooden spears to hunt other primates, according to a study in the journal Current Biology.
Researchers documented 22 cases of chimps fashioning tools to jab at smaller primates sheltering in cavities of hollow branches or tree trunks.
The report's authors, Jill Pruetz and Paco Bertolani, said the finding could have implications for human evolution.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6387611.stm
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion... Sagan |
ArthurKlym (Artklym)
member
Username: Artklym
Post Number: 956
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 10:09 pm: | |
Is that hunting or war? Or could it be that the smaller primates are not worshiping the correct god? Their god may be directing the killing. |
Neal Walls (Nwalls)
member
Username: Nwalls
Post Number: 1695
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
Their God has given them dominion over the poor bushbaby.
When they evolve further maybe they will develop a priestly class. They can bring 10% of their kill to the priests.
Then, when they figure out fire, they can sacrifice to the God of the chimps.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion... Sagan |
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